musicmaker

United States

Christian/writer (obviously)/musician/
homeschooler/flibbertigibbet/sarcastic/
mischievous/talkative/all lives matter

Message to Readers

Hey Y'all. This is my favorite way to explain the existence of God, and guess what? I didn't use the Bible! This is just common reasoning! Let me know what you think!

The Bible Challenge_musicmaker - Please read, no matter your religion

January 12, 2021

FREE WRITING

7
Says who?!

Who are you to tell me that?!

You're not my mom!

I'm an adult now! I can do what I want!

Y'all heard these phrases before? They hurt your ears like fingernails on a chalkboard. Don't you hate it when you tell someone something for their own good and they write it off as you being bossy? You can't blame them though; when someone says the same things to you, you have the same response. 

We all hate being told what we can and cannot do. It's just human nature. We like to assume that we are perfect and need no correction. And in all honesty, who's to say that we are wrong?

Seriously!

Think about it; y'all are smart. If there is no God, nothing is wrong. An all-powerful God is the only person that could say what's right and what's wrong. 

This is why people say "What's right for you is right for you, and what's right for me is right for me." It's basically a way of making an excuse for something they did wrong. If there's not God, they're right. 

But if there is a God, there are moral standards. If I told you that you cannot rob a bank and you said "say's who?!" I could say "God does". God has that authority because He created us. If there is no God, and I told you not to rob a bank, I would have not grounds in which to do so. Whatever something things is fine for them, is fine, even if it hurts other people. 

"But we all know that robbing a bank is wrong" some might argue, "Everyone just knows what is right and wrong, there doesn't have to be a God". But do we? Do we all know what's right and wrong? What if I think robbing a bank is ok because I need money? Does that make it right? If there is no God, then it's completely fine and arresting me is insane!

Does that make sense? Do you agree or disagree? Why?

Print

See History
  • January 12, 2021 - 4:09pm (Now Viewing)

Login or Signup to provide a comment.

16 Comments
  • EliathRose

    Replying: All I ever do is sit between two sides. I personally prefer to do so. It takes the pressure out of choosing one side or the other, especially when it comes to something this existential. This conversation has taken a turn, wow, haha.


    about 2 months ago
  • Mpm#1

    Absolutely.


    about 2 months ago
  • Blue Jay

    Re: Look, I am an atheist. I am an atheist for a lot of reasons. But the thing that hurt me was "God hates the LGBT lifestyle, he doesn't want you to be a part of it, he doesn't want you to be yourself so that you can be happy, he wants you to follow this perfect Christian checklist so that you can hate life, and he wants you to go to hell for it, but he still loves you." If that's what love is, then I don't want that kind of love. It seems like a toxic form of love to me. If that is the love that I am supposed to be looking for, then why should I live? Why should I look for love that hurts me more than anything? The love I am looking for is with my friends, my family, my community, myself, my life, this amazing world, and so much more. Honestly, at some point I wondered why I put up with such a toxic relationship, and why I blamed myself for BEING MYSELF. Anyways, I'm kind of ranting now, once again have a good day. :)


    about 2 months ago
  • EliathRose

    Replying: I understand and respect your opinion as well. I have done research on both sides, but have not come to the conclusion of which one I agree with just yet. I don’t know if I ever will. I ask you to look at both sides as well, and to have a good day/night.


    about 2 months ago
  • Shay

    Re: That is a very good point you have pointed out. But how do we know it isn't in our nature to be empathetic? What if it has nothing to do with God? Why do we need a higher entity to give us this basic sense of right and wrong? Why must everything we do or feel be credited to this higher being we have no proof exists?


    about 2 months ago
  • Blue Jay

    Replying: So I am a part of the LGBT community, and I'm not going to lie, it did insult me to hear "The LGBT are looked upon as more sinful because it has worse consequences, not because it is actually more sinful, but it is still wrong and I would not condone it. However, I believe that God hates sin but doesn't hate the sinner." I'm not going to discuss that point. I know that you meant well and all, but I have heard that from so many people in my short life and I am done with it. If being me is a sin, the moral code is messed up. I am not going to give evidence for it besides all of the LGBT people who have had their lives ruined because their parents or church said that being themselves was a sin.

    I don't agree with the idea that empathy couldn't have come from evolution. Other animals feel empathy. Gorillas and elephants are similar to humans in the way that they have empathy, grieve dead comrades, and many other animals can too. Evolution is random. But evolution led to this moment. Evolution has turned us from 1 celled things into huge complex systems with trillions of cells, that can see, feel, touch, think and do all kinds of other things too, so I don't think that it's a stretch to say that we, and other animals, can have empathy because of evolution.

    There were small chances of us and the world being the way they are, but god doesn't necessarily have to be an explanation for it. God could have created it, but also it could have just appeared. To me, both options make as much sense as the other. We have no idea what actually happened 3 billion years ago when the universe was created, and we will never have any idea, so debating it is kind of pointless I guess. I honestly don't feel like I need an explanation on why the universe is the way it is. It could have been different, but it isn't. We are here now, and I guess to me that's what matters.

    Have a great day as well, and please don't take this as an insult or anything. I am just tired of people saying that being LGBT is a sin and it really hurt me, it was one of the main reasons why I became an atheist. Anyways good points and have a nice day. :)


    about 2 months ago
  • EliathRose

    Replying: Yes, that does make sense; however, how can we prove that it is God who gives us these morals? I’m not saying that I agree or disagree with you on that (I actually don’t really know what I think), I’m just saying that we don’t know for sure. Yes, there may be a right and wrong to this discussion, but I don’t think that we as humans can fully prove either side.


    about 2 months ago
  • EliathRose

    Replying: You do bring up a good point about marriage in the Bible, and I do understand where that argument is coming from. I admit that it was just an example; I didn't think it through as well as I could have.

    I'm just curious -- how do you know if deep down, everyone knows what is right and wrong? You can see down into yourself, but you can't really truly know what others are feeling. Let's entertain, for a moment, that morality is entirely provable and does exist. I've done some poking around in different sources, and from what I can see, it is a widely held belief that morality is embedded in our biological makeup. This can mean a couple of things -- that God has instilled it in us from the beginning, or evolution has something to do with it (or a mixture of both). Both arguments make sense. It could be God, because Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden and then knew the difference between good and evil; but it could also be evolution, because developing compassion and an ability to see outcomes of the future in order to survive all play into morality. I think that there's no "correct" answer in this debate, just as there's no "correct" answer when it comes to most of these things. There's no way we can actually prove that God exists, just as there's no way we can prove that any other gods or lack thereof exists.

    I hope that made sense and didn't sound rude. Your comment wasn't insulting at all, by the way! I really appreciated you taking the time to respond to my thoughts.


    about 2 months ago
  • Shay

    This is a very interesting take. I'm Hindu and I believe in God too(a different one but still ). However, I don't think our moral values prove the existence of God. As Villi V has mentioned, moral stems from empathy. That is why even a religious person can be a psychopath. They have no empathy. We have decided what is right and what is wrong based on our humanity.


    about 2 months ago
  • Blue Jay

    Hi, I am an atheist, I have also been following this challenge and good work (we have like a lot of moral philosophers on WtW lol). I will say that God's code is not totally moral either. The main example I have is the idea that LGBT people are sinners, although there might be other examples too. I don't think that that is morally fair. I also think that we humans make our own moral code in a way. I am an atheist, and I wouldn't rob from a bank because it effects someone (the people who own the bank, the employees, the people who put their money in the bank, etc.), not because god thought that it was wrong. Humans feel pain, and we don't want others to feel pain because we wouldn't want to feel that pain. As a society we make standards for ourselves, we create rules, and we have come up with what is kind of right or wrong in a way. I feel like god is not really the reason why we all follow this moral code we have as humans, basically. Our moral code is not perfect, but god's isn't either, and honestly, there is no perfect moral code, just like humans it is imperfect. nice piece again, and have a lovely day. :)


    about 2 months ago
  • Eremurus

    I'm a real fan of this challenge and enjoy reading about other people's thoughts on Christianity. Love and respect in all directions. Now here's my thoughts:

    I believe in the creator. I don't believe in some old white guy up in the sky somewhere. I don't believe that that old white guy sits at a desk and pulls out a file cabinet every once and a while to check on his all-powerful constantly relevant plans for what is right and what is wrong. I don't believe there is a set right and wrong and I don't believe there is a set good and evil. I believe in the powerful expanse of love and that every human being is deserving of it.


    about 2 months ago
  • Villi V

    I disagree. Morals come from empathy. If someone is killed, we instinctively know that pain. Empathy comes from evolution. Feeding the hungry and caring for the sick is what makes our families, tribes, villages, and whole societies run. Having these societies makes it less likely for us to be killed, and more likely for us to reproduce and pass on our genes. From evolution comes empathy. From empathy comes morals.

    Here's a question. If morals come from god, why do moral codes differ from person to person? From christian to christian?


    about 2 months ago
  • rainey grace

    Agree! I was raised in a Christian home and have asked similar questions to myself. I really think that these questions are debatable to some people... and there's arguments at my school with people saying stuff like "Oh, yeah. That guy named God? You're insane to believe in that stuff." Well, obviously that sometimes ticks me off and I start pouring my heart out about how God is real. I love this piece, I love this community, and I especially love what Emi and anonymous_123 are doing to prove who God is and that He is good!! Have a great night!


    about 2 months ago
  • EliathRose

    Hello! I've been watching this trend going for a while, and I'm really intrigued by all of the pieces and the views in them. Your argument here takes an interesting stance; from what I can gather, you are arguing that because God exists, we all have a moral code and a firm "right" and "wrong" implanted in us. Just for the sake of (hopefully friendly and constructive) debate, may I present an argument against this piece? If you'd rather not engage in debate over this, you don't have to continue reading this comment, and you don't have to respond to me at all.

    To start off, it could be argued that morality completely depends on the environment and culture that one is surrounded by. Men in Bible times, for instance, would often marry multiple wives, and it was not considered strange or abnormal. People in specific Bible stories who practiced this include Solomon, Lamech (Cain's son), Moses (though that is a bit debatable), and other patriarchs in many of the stories in the Old Testament. But today, we consider that immoral and have laws preventing this behavior. Why is that? They believed in the same God whose existence you are proving here, and yet they held different moral standards. We also need to acknowledge the other higher power figures in other religions; the God of Christianity is not the only divine being worshipped in the world. Do those other beings not also hold their believers to a moral code of their own? Other countries that are less integrated with Christianity have widely different laws from the United States, but does that make them less morally correct? The truth is, morality is something that is constructed by one's environment around them; if they are raised to believe that robbing a bank is moral and that is all they believe, how are they to know that it is deemed wrong by society? They don't! It is something that is taught.

    I personally believe that there is no set explanation for morality. In fact, the idea of "morality" and a "sense of right and wrong" are purely constructs, though they are widely held constructs due to their debatable nature. Even if it wasn't, morality could be explained by any number of things, ranging from gods to biological makeup to how parents want their children to turn out. So yes, if someone wishes to rob a bank and claim that it is right for them to do, then it is right for them to do. They still have to suffer the consequences of their actions, but it does not make it wrong in their eyes. Nothing can do that.

    Basically, God is not the only explanation for a moral code. He is not the only thing that can prevent someone from doing something based on what they think is "wrong" and what is "right." There are plenty of people who do not believe in God who would never murder someone, even though that is one of God's laws, just as there are people who believe in God who will willingly murder multiple people in their lives. God existing is an explanation for morality, that is for sure. But it is not the only one out there.


    about 2 months ago
  • Abigail Faith [ChildOfGod]

    Yesss!!!!! Love this!!! <3


    about 2 months ago
  • anonymous_123 [Child of God]

    Yes! This is a good point! I just want to add if you don’t mind that a lot of people are writing about moral descions! So maybe for the next days choose a different topic, you might already have been planning that. Anyway yeah just keep that in mind. But again this was a good point. So many people argue over this but this is something that kind of proved it a moral code! :)


    about 2 months ago